Conversation: Danny Gruening on Too Much of a Good Thing

This week, I'm sharing a conversation I had on the Action Lab Leadership Podcast with host Danny Gruening, who also happens to be my husband.

We explore how leaders accidentally hold their teams back by trying to protect them, why curiosity can sometimes become procrastination, what I've learned about giving difficult feedback, and how keeping promises to yourself impacts your confidence.

Because sometimes the thing getting in your way isn't a weakness at all. It's a strength that's been taken a little too far.

This is a conversation about self-awareness, leadership, and recognizing when your best qualities might be creating unintended consequences.

Learn more about the Action Lab Leadership Podcast:

https://actionlableadership.com/podcast/

Connect with Michelle:

Website: michellegruening.com
Instagram: @michellegruening
LinkedIn: Michelle Gruening

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hey y'all, and welcome to the This Is Nothing New Podcast, the place where we drop the trends and we get back to the basics. My name is Michelle Grooning, and I have a special little treat for y'all today. So, for those of you who do not know, my husband also has a podcast. And his podcast is called the Action Lab Leadership Podcast, where they have real honest conversations with business leaders. And I was thrilled to be a guest on his podcast recently. So today I am sharing that conversation with you all here and the listeners of the This Is Nothing New podcast. So Danny and I get into a lot of really interesting topics. In this episode, you're going to hear about what I have kind of dubbed the protection paradox when it comes to really wanting to help your teams, but also you're protecting them from having any big experiences. I talk about my lesson with goal setting and specifically with learning the ukulele. We talk about the best way to keep your confidence high is by keeping promises to yourself. And we talk a little bit about how curiosity is fantastic until it starts leading to procrastination. So without further ado, I hope y'all enjoy this conversation that I had with Danny Grooning, who happens to be my husband and also the host of the Action Lab Leadership Podcast. Enjoy.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Welcome to the Action Lab Leadership Podcast, the show where we have honest, unfiltered conversations with business leaders. I'm Danny, the founder of Action Lab Leadership, and today we are joined by Michelle Grooning, one of the coaches here at Action Lab Leadership, and she also happens to be my wife. Michelle, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

And the day that we're recording this also happens to be our 13th wedding anniversary. So that's pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Exactly. Happy anniversary.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Happy anniversary to you as well. We officially say it in front of the world. So let's start this conversation where I always do with these podcast episodes. Leadership is a word that means a lot of things to a lot of different people. How do you, Michelle, define leadership and what does it mean to be a leader in your eyes?

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I love this question. So one of my mentors, also your mentors, John Maxwell, he defines leadership as influence, nothing more and nothing less. And I do agree with that, but I think leadership expands far beyond like the position it puts us in. To me, leadership is taking an interest in the people around us and wanting to contribute to the growth and the expansion of our communities, of our teams, of our families. It's really this characteristic that goes so much deeper than any title you could ever have. It's more about the choices that we make day in and day out, how we keep promises to ourselves, how we show up for ourselves and show up for other people.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

When it comes to being able to lead other people and to kind of pour into them to help them grow, that's kind of what I'm hearing in your definition there of leadership. And maybe you've already touched on this, but when you think about yourself as a leader, what are your favorite parts about being a leader? When, because some people find leadership stressful and some people find it exciting, some people find it both a hundred times each, every single day, and they go back and forth, right? But in your eyes, what is your favorite part about being a leader?

SPEAKER_00 3:47

I think it's the opportunity that I get to help other people realize what success means to them and how they can continue to step farther into their strengths. Now, in full transparency, one of my favorite parts about being a leader is seeing other people take on more responsibility and really expand. Simultaneously, one of the hardest things for me as a leader is to delegate. So those can kind of come in conflict a lot. And that's something I hear from leaders a lot is that we want to help other people expand their responsibilities, yet we still have what some people might say a preference for control in the things that we do. And so, but some of the things that I really love about being a leader is really helping people get clarity on what they want from their own leadership journey. Maybe they're a first-time manager, maybe they've never seen themselves as a leader. And so for me as Michelle, but also as a coach in my own right, is three of my core values are openness, curiosity, and encouragement. And at the end of the day, one of my favorite parts about being a leader is just making a big deal out of people's wins, out of the things they're proud of, and being that source of encouragement. Because encouragement is great no matter who it's coming from. But when it can come from someone who is viewed as a leader and who holds, who really holds that title in a serious way. We have a lot of impact as leaders, it can just be that much more meaningful. And so that's one of my favorite parts is just to get to highlight other people and help them celebrate their wins.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

You said a lot of really cool things right there. And I want to back up and remember a couple of these. So, one, you talked about one of your favorite things is watching other people grow and getting those aha moments and the light bulb and expanding their abilities, expanding their capacity, but at the same time, you struggle with delegating and those things are in conflict. One, that is something that I think, like you said, is common among a lot of people, but they may not know that. It takes a lot of self-awareness and reflection to realize the way that we show up and the things that we love can be in contradiction to the ways that we act at times. For you specifically, what is behind when you say you struggle with delegating, what is kind of the root of that? Is it more of no one will be able to do it as good as me, or I don't have enough time to train them, or I want to be in control, or something else entirely? Like, what is kind of the route that makes that a little bit of a struggle at times for you?

SPEAKER_00 6:31

I that's a great question. I think back to my time in the software industry. And when I started working for a software company, I was the very first hire on the customer success team. And so I was the sole customer success manager, which meant I was responsible for the success, the implementation, the engagement of our hundreds of customers. And so I took on the responsibility of building out a structure, building out a plan. But of course, it got to a point where the work was beyond my capabilities and we needed to hire in more staff members. So we did, and they were fantastic. But for me, it's I enjoy training. I enjoy helping people implement new strategies, new tools, new processes into their work. I don't think it's that I don't believe other people can do it as good as me. I think if I'm being super honest with myself, I don't want sometimes in those scenarios, I didn't want to scare away new people with the amount of work that was actually going to come their way. And so I think part of me was trying to protect them from like an onslaught of new work. But if I go even deeper, because this is the real honest conversations, right, with business leaders, is I think there's a part of me that doesn't want to make other people feel like the work is a burden. And so I just hold the burden, but never say that it's a burden. And so I try to keep stuff to myself sometimes to quote unquote protect my team members. And then that's where the dichotomy of leadership comes in is I can't help others grow if I don't relinquish some of that control. And so that is awareness, is the first step. Um but for me, I do think it comes down to I want people to have a consistent, organic, yes, with a bit of a stretch uh growth plan. And whereas a lot of the work that I've had, I've just been like tossed into the burning fire pit, and people were like, good luck, see you later. I don't want to do that to other people. So that was a bit of a long-winded answer to say, I think I do it because in my head I'm protecting other people. But through a lot of my own self-reflection work and continuing to grow as a leader, I know that's a red flag on my side that I'm still working through.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

Well, here's the interesting thing about this is even though you and I think and talk about leadership constantly, we think and talk about personal development constantly. This is part of what we do. Neither of us are perfect, neither of us have figured it out. We know every single answer to every single leadership problem. We're all human beings getting through and learning and growing every single day. And was you, as you were describing that not wanting to throw other people into the deep end and into the fire and maybe wanting to protect them a little bit, I remember the first time, or one of the first times we were talking about that concept, maybe a couple years ago, and you came up with the name of it that I love, which was the protect protection paradox, where we have this desire to protect our team from whether it is the work itself, or maybe that one customer, that one client's really tough, or maybe that one boss over here, whatever the case may be, we want to protect them. But in doing so, we're preventing them from being able to grow. So by protecting them, we're actually hurting them in a way. And I just find that such a fascinating concept and it's such an interesting kind of paradox to kind of hold in your head.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Yeah, it it really is. And it's it helps when you can hold that paradox in your head, it helps you expand to have that skill set of being able to hold two contradictory yet true thoughts in your head at the same time. And I remember when I was doing a lot of reflecting on some past experiences I've had working for other people, and that's when I realized that I thought I was being like the mama bear, protecting my team from the tumultuous, you know, whiplash versions of leadership at that company. But in hindsight, I wasn't giving them the chance to learn how to ride those waves, to learn how to weather those storms. And after I left, they then got that reality check that I think I could have prepared them for more. And so that is that is one of the lessons I've taken from that time at that company.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

One of the things that we teach on at Action Lab Leadership, and a lot of people struggle with, is the idea of giving critical feedback to a peer or someone who reports to them. In this case, let's maybe focus on the someone reporting to them. And it can be a struggle because sometimes they're uncomfortable and they dance around it, and sometimes that they come in with too much thunder, and sometimes it's something else entirely. When you think about kind of your leadership journey and early on, would you struggle with giving critical feedback? And what were the specific things that were difficult for you?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

I 100% struggled with giving critical feedback. I I've had a very varied career. I've worked in a lot of different industries, and one of the industries I worked in was the special events industry. I worked for a modern art museum running the special events department. And I was just a young whipper snapper back then, about 26 years old, 27. And I was thrust into this opportunity to lead a team of people that were twice my age. And they had never heard of me before. And I was being pressured to change the structure of that department. And so for me, at that point, I hadn't given anybody critical feedback before then. It was all new to me. So at that point, I was very timid. And I thought the only way to establish myself was if I just did it super direct. And looking back, probably was considered a little abrasive. But I thought that was the only way somebody was going to listen to this young kid at the time. So I remember less than six months into that role, I had to let somebody go who had been there for five years and they were twice my age. And it was terrifying. I had a full, a full list of notes and I literally read from it. And it was I went into a cold sweat just thinking about it at that time. And so because that experience was so far on the direct, kind of aggressive side of the spectrum, when I shifted into the technology industry, I swung to the other side where I wanted my new team members to like me. I was an outsider coming from a non-technical industry. And I became a bit too friendly. And so the feedback when I gave it was too soft and it didn't land. And we would need a lot longer of a podcast episode to really get into some of those stories. But for me, I've definitely struggled with it. And I think over the past several years, I've really come to come to this place where I am more confident and comfortable in delivering critical feedback because I know it's a rhythm. Every person you're delivering critical feedback to has a different communication style. And as a leader, it is our responsibility to know what those communication styles are. Because not everyone is going to respond to a lot of thunder behind your critical feedback. Where some people will get so panicked and put their walls up if they hear any rumble of thunder. And so for me, it's really been being able to figure out how I can lead with curiosity, coming back to one of those core values of mine and helping to address the actions and the behaviors of the person instead of their identity as a person. And that shift of going from you are this because of this to I noticed you did this. How can we come at the problem together? Has really helped me grow and I think has gotten more positive response when you come at it from a place of truly wanting to understand and grow as opposed to a place of just disciplinary action.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

It's interesting. And then there's almost an overcompensation to the other side of being too soft. And then it's almost like, and I'm just processing this in real time, it's almost like as we grow as leaders, everything new that we try, we're probably on one extreme end of something and we overcompensate. And the whole idea is as we go to make those overcompensations smaller and smaller and smaller as our skill set grows. So that as we make adjustments, it's not making some giant change in how we show up. It's out, let me just tweak this wording or let me change the way I communicate with that one person. Uh so it's it's less of a dramatic back and forth, and over time they become smaller and smaller in certain areas as we come become more experienced, but not just experienced, we we can reflect and intentionally grow and extract the wisdom in order to make those proper changes. So it's kind of it's kind of like we're just trying to uh mitigate the whiplash as we get better and better at leadership.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah, I think that makes total sense. And I completely agree because even if we have been leaders for decades, there's always going to be a new employee, there's going to be a new industry or a new product, or maybe you shift to a new company. And you can pull from those experiences that you have in your past. And we we talk a lot about confidence. And it's really being able to build that kind of situational confidence where you have a, you know, a huge list of experiences and strengths and skills in your toolkit. And you can pull from those because you kind of hear like echoes of past experiences. And I think that's what that's what I would encourage leaders, especially new leaders, not to be afraid of that kind of shifting back and forth, because that's the only way to ever know how we can improve and where we are really succeeding is we have to try. I know it sounds so simple and cliche, but truly we will never know what we're capable of if we don't try and go a little too far to the left and try again and go too far to the right and try to come back and find that equilibrium. So it's all, I mean, a lot of leadership is trial and error, but not being afraid of the error. So it's trial, error, reflect, learn, improve.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

You know, I think I may have seen this on a podcast video or a reel recently, but the idea of failure because it's try and fail, right? Because we're going to constantly fail. And there's so many people have this very tough relationship with the idea of failure. It's it feels very heavy, feels very difficult. It's the last thing they want to experience. But at the same time, if any of those people are also into fitness, and if they go into the gym and let's say they lift weights, one of the things that people do when they're building muscle is literally lift weights to failure. And I've never ever once in my life seen a person who is in the gym lifting weights till failure and they couldn't get a rep and they internalized something about themselves about like, oh, I can't do this. And it's just they understand it's part of the process. And I think it's so interesting how people can disconnect their identity from failure and something like that. But then in work, it's just our identity so attached to the outcome. It's well, if I failed, that means I'm a failure. And if I'm a failure, dot, dot, dot, dot. And there's all these crazy stories and meanings that we attach to those.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Yeah. I mean, leadership is a muscle, if you want to take it that way. Of when you're in when you're in the gym and you're exercising, you're literally building your muscles. Failure is part of that growth process. So if we can look at our leadership skills as a muscle that we continue to flex and grow. And the only way we get stronger is to stretch ourselves. The only way we can expand our influence is to stretch ourselves to touch more people, to impact more people. And every every success point is, what do they say, is paved with potholes of failure along the way or something like that. We're gonna make that the new saying. But failure is part of the process. And I would say it's only really a failure if you don't learn anything from it. Like it's only a failure if you just stop and throw up your hands and are like, I'm out. Um, there's always something to be learned.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

I want to go back to toward the beginning of this conversation. You talked about your personal values, and one of them is curiosity. It's a big part of who you are. What are the ways that you as a person, whether it's through leadership or any other thing, what are the ways that you scratch the itch of curiosity? How do you uh how are you able to lean into that curiosity on a regular basis?

SPEAKER_00 20:27

For me, curiosity uh is about myself, but it's also about new topics, it's about different perspectives, um, different belief systems, different origin stories. So I know one of the things that I do is uh listen to um The Daily Fire and this growth day app by one of my other mentors, Brennan Burchard. And there's a couple of folks on there who I listen to their their kind of spiel, like their little talk. And it is always a flex, uh, it's me flexing my curiosity muscle because I don't necessarily jive with this person's delivery or personality or kind of anything. But if I just shut off any opportunity to learn from this person because of some preferential differences, I am potentially losing out on so much. So for me, that's one of the ways that I flex my curiosity. And it also helps me get curious about myself because I'll reflect on why it is that I feel friction with this delivery style? What is it about me that is, you know, putting up a wall for me to hear what this person is saying? That's one of the ways. But for another way, is you know, I a couple of years ago, I joined um this women's community that's a worldwide community. And when I say literally every belief system, background, Income bracket, different type of view is in this community. I am not exaggerating. And so that has been a beautiful masterclass for me of getting to know people who I would never have voluntarily gone to hang out with. But because I'm putting myself in situations to expand my curiosity, it's allowing me to tap into it. And so part of that for me is just like, you know, I never thought about it that way. Will you tell me more? Or, you know, I'm not really understanding where you're coming from, but I would love to understand your perspective. Like, I'm just curious, how did you get there? And that's part of how I lead too is I try not to make assumptions. I'm not perfect, but I try not to make assumptions. And you know more than most, as I normally start with, I'm just curious. How did you get to where you are today? Or why is that a problem? Or how can I help?

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Curiosity is we have that value in common. I'm also a very curious person. And it's it's interesting where any, if you want to look at curiosity as a strength, but any strength taken to the extreme can be a detriment at times. And I know for me, one of the things that I can struggle with is because I'm curious, I can use that as an excuse to become more distracted. Of why, of course, I need to watch this next YouTube video about this random topic because I'm really curious about that thing, or watch this TED Talk or whatever it is, and dive down these rabbit holes of things that I really don't need to be learning, but I use curiosity as the excuse of distracting myself. Is that something that you experience yourself as well?

SPEAKER_00 23:48

I that is such a good thread to continue to pull on because curiosity, I love that, where any strength taken to the extreme can kind of become a detriment because we could say, Oh, well, I'm just so curious. I'm gonna keep researching for a year before I make a decision. That's no longer curiosity, that's procrastination. And you have to have the awareness to be able to know where that line is. So for me, I know some of the things I get curious on is I will go down real quick, like hyperfixation rabbit holes, like with hobbies. I will learn a new hobby and then all of a sudden I am curious about I started to learn how to loom. If anybody knows how to loom knit hats. I've never stood in a yarn aisle for so long getting curious about the different yarn types, when in reality it's a brand new hobby. And I need to still prove to myself that I have the consistency and the interest to warrant quite a yarn supply. So that's just kind of a silly example. But sometimes I can get super curious of, um, especially when it comes to maybe like a vacation or I'm planning a trip, is I want to know kind of all of my options before I get there. But one of the things I'm really leaning into this summer is spontaneity, which can kind of be in contradiction with curiosity at times. So it's really a dance for me. It's a bit more of a rhythm. Like I like to be curious because it helps me create more certainty. The more things I'm curious about and get the answers to, the more certainty I have. But I also know the power of variety, which comes from spontaneity. So it's just kind of like learning how to blend those two and incorporate both into my life more.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

As you were talking about the yarn, which I love that I've never stood in a yarn aisle being so curious about the different types. There's also another uh it there are so many things that come up in these interviews that I never plan to discuss. It's just interesting curiosity threads that I pull on. There's also an example that if if you'd like to share, um, the example of the ukulele that you used to use as a kind of a symbol for your where your mindset is and what the things that you focus on and choose to do. Could you enlighten the uh listeners on that story?

SPEAKER_00 26:08

Sure. So a few years ago, I decided it was like the top goal that I needed to focus on in my life to learn how to play the ukulele. I bought a ukulele, I signed up for the monthly lessons. I just had this vision of myself playing ukulele on the beach. I don't even like the beach, but I had this vision playing the ukulele on the beach and people being like, oh, look how cool she is. Look how carefree and chill and whatever. And I was maybe a month or so into this whole ukulele curiosity hyperfixation when I realized I don't give a shit about playing the ukulele. This I truly do not care. I was more focused on the perception, the perceived perception of other people on me. I was more worried about what will other people think if I can do this thing. When I didn't even want to do it. So for a while, my ukulele is just off camera, but I used to have it behind me as a reminder that curiosity is powerful, but focus on the things that you actually care about, not what you think other people will approve of. And it was a reminder to me, especially when it comes to goal setting times. Set goals for yourself, set goals for your focus, your definition of success. Who cares whether other people think you're gonna be cool playing the ukulele or not? Just stay focused. So, I mean, I can I can strum a C chord, but that's about it.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

It's interesting how often when I work with clients or friends and colleagues, other people, how often without them realizing their goals or some of the projects they want to work on or some of the things that they want to do aren't things they care about at all. But it comes from the root of it is this well, what would other people, what do I think other people would view me as if I did that thing? And if what when I work with clients, I help kind of uncover and peel back and the you know, asking why a whole bunch of times and all those things. But it's amazing how at times we come up with these goals that are so disconnected from the things we care about or want in any way whatsoever, but they can drive some of our behaviors in a way that creates so much friction. Like for you in that example, you probably had a lot of friction practicing the ukulele because you didn't give a damn. But there was this, well, I have to play it because I set my mind to it and I said that was going to be a goal, but it's not a goal that that matters to you anymore.

SPEAKER_00 28:52

Yeah. Yeah. And I've had one of the things with curiosity, one of the reasons I have it as a value is because when I lead with curiosity, it allows my coaching clients to pause and get curious about themselves. Like I had a client once who started with me because she wanted to start her own mastermind community. She wanted to give back to her industry and start building up those people. And that's a worthy cause, right? Those it's very important to have that type of community, that type of accountability. But when I got really curious about the why, it allowed her to pause and go deeper and tap into her own curiosity. And she went so deep as to realize that sure, that was a goal. But what she really wanted to do more than anything for over a decade was to write her book. But she had never been given that moment of someone else's just genuine curiosity about her to give her that space to recognize what she really wanted. And that's one of the gifts that we as leaders have is when we can use our curiosity as a as an opportunity to give the people we're working with just a space to breathe for a second, to really reflect and ask why. So many beautiful things come out of that. But if we're always fighting for the next quick answer, the next trend, the next hack, we never stop and get curious, we're going to lose out on so many connections, so many levels of impact, so much opportunity for influence.

SPEAKER_01 30:41

Yeah, the connection and the relationship building part of leadership is so important. And some of the things that I see in the family entertainment industry sometimes, whether it's from the owner or a higher-level manager, is that they know there's kind of a transient nature to their their employees because it's oh, I'm gonna have kids in high school, maybe kids in college, and they're gonna move on, they're only gonna be here for a little while. And they'll whether they admit it or not, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't, that knowing that prevents them from wanting to build relationships because in their mind they're like, Well, they're gonna be gone in like a year. What's the point? But when we approach the our leadership and our relationships in that way, of well, it's gonna end soon, so what's the point? They're missing out on so many possibilities of what that person can do, or the there are things that who knows what could happen by building that relationship with that person, who knows the impact, the ripple effect far beyond that one job at that one entertainment venue for that one summer, making an a connection with that person, what that could do years or decades down the line, we tend to think in such short terms sometimes and some uh kind of very narrow focus of well, they're gonna be gone soon. So, what's the point? Uh yeah, I just find that to be a short-sighted way to look at relationships with the people that you're leading.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

I agree. Um, I think that a lot of times leaders get into that mindset because they're so focused on the metrics, the bottom line. And yes, money's good. We need money. That's what keeps our economy stimulated. We need the financial resources. But also, I would challenge those people who have that mindset of like, I'm I'm just not gonna worry about this person, they're gonna be gone anyways. I would challenge them to really reflect on whether they consider themselves an actual leader. Because leaders are people who know they may never see where the ripple ends. They, it's that that saying or proverb or whatever it is of leaders plant the trees under whose shade they will never sit. Leaders are the people who know that the choices they make every day, whether it's how you speak to your family, whether it's how you support uh employee, how you help that family that's really having a hard time in the arcade, those are the things that create the ripple effects. Because I know we can all pause and think about some of our first jobs. And I've been in the customer success industry, customer service industry my entire life. I've worked at fast food restaurants, I've worked at Disney World and events and everything in between. And I can look back and think about those leaders. Well, I'll use the word bosses here, who treated me as dispensable and disposable. And I can look back as that being a moment where I realized if I ever want to be a leader, it's not gonna look like that. And then I can think to the people who, even though I was only there a short time, took the opportunity to level me up. I think back specifically to the college program where you and I met actually many, many moons ago. And I was working a seven-month internship. And they still brought me in to take me up to the next level of knowledge. They still gave me the opportunity to learn how a different part of the department worked because they were in the business of building leaders, whether or not they were gonna stay at that place or not. And so that's something that I feel very strongly about is even if it is a temporary three-month teenager kid, you may be the only positive influence in their life. And that's that's a gift. That is such an opportunity for people to step up into their level of leadership. And so if you just ignore that as somebody who's going to be gone in three months, you are wasting your ability as a leader.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

It's moving from the idea that relationships are transactional and moving into the idea that they're transformational. Yeah. I think that's kind of the way as you're talking about that. I'm thinking about that example because for me, and I've shared this on different stages before, maybe here on the podcast before, but you know, when I was 15 years old and I got my very first job, and it was at a laser tag center. I've literally been in this industry my entire life. But the general manager at that laser tag center was Armando, who is one of the owners today of Creative Works. At the time, no one could have ever known that would be the case. At the time, I was just a 15-year-old high school kid that got hired onto that place. But he he treated all of us so well, and he focused on his ability to transform us and help us become more confident, help us become and up our skill set, and all those different things. He he worked on the transformation side to the point that we can fast forward many, many, many, many years, and I'm still working with him today at Creative Works, and he is my business partner in Laction Lab leadership. And that's not to say that for anyone who runs an entertainment venue or any other kind of business that all every one of your employees is going to be a future business partner or stay with you for you know 10, 20 years. That's of course not going to be the case with everybody, and it may not be the case with anybody. But when you treat the relationships like maybe that could be, the effect that it has on the other person is monumental. It's that ripple effect that goes beyond this moment, beyond this season or this year, or whatever it is in your business that will ripple effect through their life and their future. So I feel like we could keep talking on this for so long. So many different things. Um, but I I think we're kind of maybe coming to the end of our of our um conversation here. As we're wrapping up, you know, one of the last things I wanted to ask you is we talked about curiosity and how taken to the extreme that can also lead to procrastination. Are there specific areas that you tend to procrastinate on or certain types of projects that you struggle with most when it comes to procrastination? And what have you learned about the ability to get yourself into gear in those areas?

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Coming in with the heavy hitting questions today. Um, I am I am someone who doesn't like to let other people down. So if my work or if the project is affecting more than just me. So if it's part of a team or if if it's been asked by somebody else for me to accomplish, it is always goes to the top of the list. And so what tends to happen is I tend to procrastinate things that in my sight only affect me. And so that's things like procrastinating. Uh, if I think about um in my own coaching business, it's procrastinating the launch of my newsletter because I was too focused on wanting to help other people. So I tend to procrastinate things that in my eyes only affect me. And I tend to always show up for other people first, which I think is one of my strengths as a leader, is because I really do want to show up for other people. But I have to turn that back to me, reminding myself that leadership starts with the self. I have to be able to lead myself. So when it comes to procrastinating things, definitely things like getting my newsletter launched, which thankfully is now, starting my own podcast, which is thankfully out now. But the old the reason um that I took so long to really get those things going was because I didn't think it would necessarily like nobody else was counting on it, nobody else knew about it. So I could procrastinate it. So for me, the way that I get over some of those procrastination challenges is I tell people about them. I say, hey, I'm working on this project. Feel free to ask me about it anytime and help hold me accountable. So those are just a couple examples.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

You had mentioned that people, you you have to start by leading yourself. And the viewers and the listeners of this podcast are also leading themselves by watching and listening to podcasts like this in order to grow in their own skills as a leader or in business or anywhere else in life, or maybe it's just purely entertainment as well. As we wrap up here, and if you consider the listeners and the viewers of this podcast, what is one recommended action that they could take today in order to level up their leadership skill set, in order to become a better leader within their business, within their family, within their community, within anywhere they define that? What is one action they can start taking today?

SPEAKER_00 40:24

This is uh this is also a reminder for myself. So I say this from a place of growth also. What I would challenge everybody listening to do is keep the promises you make to yourself. That's the action. In my perspective, that is the fastest, most surefire way to build your own self-confidence is by keeping the promises you make to yourself. So I would challenge you, all listening out there, look at that list of things you said you were going to do today, this week, this month. What is the thing you keep putting off that is sitting in the back of your mind, eating away at your confidence because it remains on the list? I challenge you to take the action of putting that into motion. Take a small step, take a big step, but just make progress on those promises that you have made to yourself because they matter too.

SPEAKER_01 41:19

Make progress. I love that as a way to close this out. Uh, Michelle, thank you so much for joining us here on the Action Lab Leadership Podcast. It's been awesome having you.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Thanks so much for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

And thank you to everyone watching and listening to this podcast. If you enjoyed the episode, don't forget to subscribe and maybe send this episode to somebody that you think might enjoy it. Now go out there, take action in your business, and become the leader that your team needs you to be.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

All right. Thank y'all for listening to what was essentially a conversation Danny and I have over the dinner table. So y'all got a little sneak peek into what it looks like in our household on a regular evening. It's such a special opportunity, I guess, in life to be able to do this work alongside my spouse. Danny and I have gone through our personal development journeys and on the same times, but individually, because we worked on ourselves as individual people. And then we come together to work on our partnership, on our marriage, on our work as leadership coaches and people who want to give back as much as possible to the next generation of leaders. And so I appreciate y'all listening in. I would love to know what your favorite part was. And don't forget to go subscribe and listen to the Action Lab Leadership Podcast as well. You will hear fantastic interviews with leaders from all across the family entertainment industry space. And then remember to share this episode. Who do you know that would value from hearing a little bit more about curiosity to procrastination, about being able to give critical feedback and about hearing a different perspective on leadership? Thank y'all for listening. And until next time, I'll catch y'all later.